Extreme dilute testing

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Ronald Huntley
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Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:39 pm

Extreme dilute testing

Post by Ronald Huntley » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:57 am

I’m certainly glad to see the majority of you agree with my comments; as they related to Mr. Rodgers and Mr. Palakkad article on Standard Terminology. If you recall, there was another item in that same issue of the News, Views, & Comments that I was also going to address. It dealt with Jack Barkel’s Lemon find. I will deal with it here today.
To save time I won’t retype the entire thing. However, here is the essence of what was written. Apparently Tim Kvidera wrote Rogers regarding the manner in which Rogers had labeled a photo of Tim’s in the previous Issue. The bird in question was an extreme dilute Archangel that Tim had made. This extreme dilute Archangel was developed using a Barkel lemon Homer, to move the lemon or extreme dilute gene from the Homer line, to Tim’s Archangels. Tim named this new phenotype as Ivory Butterscotchwing Archange. However, Rodgers mistakenly renamed it an Ecru and credited Tim for the photo. I assume Rodgers doesn’t agree with the extreme dilute findings and continues to hold onto the Ecru theory.
Here is what Tim wrote. . . .” Referring to my Archangel as an ecru is also a misnomer. The last I heard from Gibson, et al, their ecru was not an allele to dilute. The Barkel lemon Homer that I used to create the ivory butterscotchwing Archangel has been shown to be an allele of dilute. Tim.
Rogers response to that was . . . . . “It is my understanding that it was shown to be a sex-linked recessive, but NOT proven to be an allele of dilution with testing for the crossover ratio still underway.” Bob R.
What Rogers wrote disturbs me for several reasons:
1. As most of you know. Larry Davis has already demonstrated that Barkel’s Lemon is both a sex-linked recessive and an allele at the dilute locus. To date, there has been nothing developed to discredit that. Standard genetic tests for both sex-linkage and allelism have proven over and over that Davis’s work is correct. It is only Dr. Gibson, Jerry Sternadle and Jim Muckerman who disagree. However, after some eleven or twelve years of testing, they simply cannot disprove Davis’s findings.

2. Davis named the new gene allele, Extreme Dilute, in honor of the late Dr. Willard Hollander; who had predicted that someday, such a mutation would occur in pigeons; just as it had in Ring Neck Doves. Had Davis named this mutation Ecru, as Gibson and his team suggested, all would have been fine. However, Davis chose to name it for what it was and not the color it looked like. That’s when all hell broke loose and Gibson’s team began to declare that not enough testing had been done to demonstrate sex-linkage. Well after five years of Davis and I, breeding and handing out extreme dilutes to other breeders to test and or move into other breeds; this idea of Gibson’s team that it might not be sex-linked was simply not going to fly. Every loft it was tested in demonstrated that it was both a sex-linked recessive at the dilute locus. So Gibson and his team changed directions and came up with their current theory. It only took Davis about five months to work out the genetic puzzle and request that I duplicate the testing to either prove or disprove his findings. On the other hand, Gibson and his team have been testing now for some eleven or twelve years to disprove Davis; but with no results.

3. A Genetic Newsletter should have some facts to point towards when making such a case as this one; i.e. that more testing is needed. However, there are no such facts to back up that statement. About all Rogers has, is Dr. Gibson’s theory that Ecru (Gibson’s name for the extreme dilute mutation) is not an allele of dilute; but, rather a completely separate mutation residing at some unknown locus; believed to be somewhere between the reduced locus and the dilution locus. In other words, the dilution series of alleles and the ecru mutation reside at separate loci on the same sex chromosome. Therefore, they are not alleles. Well in my opinion it takes more than a theory based on gut feelings, a hope and a prayer to suggest the theory has merit. It should require some evidence that points in that direction. About all they have so far is that some strange things are going on in Jerry Sternadel’s breeding loft. A fact that does not surprise me. On the other hand, by Davis using standard genetic testing for both sex-linkage and allelism he has proven beyond a doubt that his findings are correct.

4. Robert Mangile took Davis’s testing one step further and crossed a homozygous extreme dilute (symbolized dex ) pigeon with a Dilution White (symbolized as dw ) Ring Neck Dove. In doing so, Mangile produced two young dove x pigeon hybrids. His work with these hybrids clearly demonstrates the two mutations are indeed alleles at the dilute locus. There is a photo submitted by Robert showing his two young hybrid cock birds on my genetics web page; at this link http://www.angelfire.com/ga/huntleyloft/lemon.html

5. It’s my understanding that Dr. Gibson no longer keeps pigeons. I assume that means he is no longer testing his Ecru theory. If he is, then it is over someone else’s shoulder. It is long past time for testing to continue. His theory should be put to rest until someone can prove otherwise. To continue to discredit Davis’s tried and true findings is doing the Pigeon Hobby a great disserves. It is now time to call a Rose a Rose and not continue to call it something that it isn’t.

I would like to hear your thoughts and common’s on this matter. For more information on Larry Davis’s testing and results, please visit my web site at http://www.angelfire.com/ga/huntleyloft/lemon.html There you will find the article that was published in the Purebred Pigeon, May/June 2007 issue on this extreme dilute mutation.
For additional information on the dilute series visit http://www.angelfire.com/ga/huntleyloft/yellow.html
Ronald Huntley

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Re: Extreme dilute testing

Post by Genetics » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:07 pm

I don't know much about these gene apart from your website, however I'd hope that genetic research could be a step above the pettiness that seems to follow around general pigeon breeding.

We're all trying to do the same thing, and there is no money in it to drive competition... surely we can all work together.

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